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An SMP question: when 1 - 1 = 5+ , 8+ (unlimited)

This thread may not be of interest to many of you, especially those who do not play a Precision-like system, but maybe there are some who might be willing and able to help me with the following.  Thank you in advance to any and all of you who read and/ or respond including sharing information or methods to this thread.  

Background:  Earlier versions of the Precision Bidding System described all positive suit responses to the 1 opening as being 8+ hcp with 5+ cards in the bid suit.  They did not initially describe or limit how strong responder's hand was (8 to 11 vs. 12+), and responder's follow-up bidding could sometimes be difficult or awkward even when there was no interference from the opponents.  Some earlier versions also recommended the use of various asking bids.  Support Asking Bids after 1 - positive - suit rebid by opener (not part of the original system) seemingly tried to address this issue by having responder's next bids show whether or not the hand had support for opener's suit as well as whether responder had 0 to 3, or 4+ controls (A=2, K=1).  However, besides the memory issues, this method could be cumbersome for many less-than-expert players, and could elevate the bidding a bit quickly.  (I, personally, have never read any reviews that extolled the virtues of Support Asking Bids.)  

So, how could responder differentiate between having a hand within the minimum range for a positive response as opposed to one with more than the minimum range (more than a king+ more)?  I have a number of earlier books on Precision including Berk-Manley, but nowhere have I seen that much discussion (if any) on the issue of clarifying how strong responder's hand was.  I've looked at forums but most now refer to mecklite methods.  I  can't says with any assurance, but I suspect that many people previously just "did the work" and worked out their own agreements.


Most versions or notes on Mecklite or similar Precision structures that I have seen use an artificial 1 response to 1 as showing most if not all 8 to 11 hcp hands including hands with 5+ s.  (first respond 1 to 1 and then show your suit, even s)  Some methods or notes have reversed the ranges: having most direct positives ( 1 - positive suit response)  show the minimum range and having 12+ positives go thru the 1 response process.   (I have personally liked the idea of reversing the process for hands such that an immediate 1 positive show the 8 to 11, and have the 12+ hands go thru the 1 process except for 1N showing 12+ with s.)

Why did I write this thread?

In his Standard Modern Precision (SMP) book, Dan Neill initially describes having all minimum hands go thru the 1 response process and other positives up through 2 as showing 12+.  Later he presents the idea of having the 1 response deny 5+ s, and he offers some bidding sequences that don't include hands.   It appears that this means that the initial 1 response no longer initially shows whether responder's hand is a "minimum" positive or whether it had extras (aka 12+).   Unfortunately, he has provided little initial information on follow-up bidding after the initial 1 response  (8+, 5+ s).  

And that Is what I am seeking by writing this.  I am looking for follow-up structures by responder after 1 - 1,  8+, 5+ s that might help differentiate between minimum positive responses and those responses that have extras other that the previously-mentioned asking bids (support or otherwise).  I have looked online, i have a fair number of earlier books on Precision including Berk-Manley, notes on Precision variants, even some stuff on Relays (which exceed my memory ability).  I have a lot of stuff including some provided by a few of you already.  (Thank you again)   I've seen one set of Mecklite notes that uses a 1NT rebid by opener after 1 - 1 as asking for controls (Beta), and another that is a bit complex that involves what appear to be relays that ask for responder's range and shape after a 1NT rebid by opener.   But I haven't been able to find any more including rebids by the 1 responder after opener rebids something other than 1NT (asking).  Most of the information I have seen merely says something like "game force".  I just haven't been able to find much on this issue.   I am sure the information is out there, that some of you have methods to address this.  I just don't have and can't find it.  (Finding a partner to play it is another issue as is the memory factor, but I'd like to know anyway.)

So, if any of you precision players out there, especially those playing some version of mecklite, have ideas or actually comprehensive notes or methods on how to address this issue as well as handling interference by the opponents, would be willing to share their methods, it would be greatly appreciated.  



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