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All comments by Allan Graves
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I agree with brad completely. Sorry this should have been in the reply to this discussion section. And I still agree with him
Sept. 22, 2015
Allan Graves edited this comment Sept. 23, 2015
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Bridge is certainly a sport. a mind sport and if we can get into a sport court situation all the better. But the analogy with partnership collusive cheating and doping is a red herring . Bridge doping , alderall and the other hyper activity remedy drugs, or some super attention focusing drug yes, That is a co relation. You do it we catch, we spend, You stop shooting up and you can play , maybe…
Bridge cheating in terms of our current 3 sets of clowns are deep deep habitual patterns and social pathologies. They are not injecting themselves with Deep Habit drugs , they are manifesting t a lifetime of learned responses and if allowed to return they will re offend unless they change the pattern and that will probably take the rest of their life. Therefore we graciously, kindly, give them that time.
The incentive to confess is a valid reason to reduce life to ten years in my opinion because it is the necessary first step to dismantle the patters, but lets stop equating injecting a performance hormone with the type of pathological conspiracy of these three pairs.
Sept. 21, 2015
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Well there is no “ right to know ” the code. As Geoff Hampson said no need to put out a primer on “ how to cheat at bridge ”. You will just have to settle for the creepy thrill of staring at a train wreck. You can rest assured though that they had reason to confess, that's just common sense.
Sept. 21, 2015
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Same all over the western world. Punishment does not fix the problem.Electronics won't fix the problem. . We need another solution.
However allowing cheats like FS and FN back in would often lead to re offending as it is a deep set habitual pattern. . In sports you can just stop taking the drugs.
Sept. 20, 2015
Allan Graves edited this comment Sept. 20, 2015
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a compromise I have posted before. You can have current screens , live humans playing actual cards …but … 4 wirelessly connected bidding pads. and bridge mate scoring. The pads transmit the bidding , two bids every X seconds. Each pad registers the auction No trays, you cannot see partner during the bidding. No gadgets, no score pads , no UI arguments etc. but still live bridge and given that bid boxes are not “ real bridge ” anyway it is not such a new leap.
Sept. 20, 2015
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Tom , don't forget restitution.
Sept. 20, 2015
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Well, “ Take is easy ”
Sept. 20, 2015
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Joris , that is a very insightful post in my opinion.

Their appreciation of their love of the game. has been deeply buried under tons of the materialism of glory ,money and self grandiosity
Without cutting them any slack whatsoever for coming forward
we can , from kindness, wish them luck in discovering that for themselves.

The wisdom of no escape.

Thanks.
Sept. 20, 2015
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Geoff, with regards to your last post, perhaps the reality of this is that it can't be repaired so whatever is done will seem inadequate . When an earthquake destroys poorly designed buildings smart societies, after grieving the damage, look at better earthquake architecture and emergency procedures

We have an opening now to ask our NBO,s to allow real input from their membersto design proper procedures not only for cheating and other ethical issues , but also for all areas of bridge governance that ultimately impact the dues paying members and the game itself.

We have done a very poor job, simply though neglect, of governance oversight which is one of the most important duties of a citizen. Indeed governments need this oversight and wise governance embraces it We need to revive organized tournament bridge. It is close, if not already past , the point of no return. It is much better and much easier to accomplish that with NBO co- operation and that would be an exciting process for all concerned. however regardless of their co operation it must be done. Really, there is no other option.
Sept. 20, 2015
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moved to its own comment
Sept. 20, 2015
Allan Graves edited this comment Sept. 20, 2015
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Clearly they defrauded a number of people and tournaments. Surely that is a criminal offense. That seems to me to be leverage to at least force significant restitution.
Sept. 20, 2015
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I had a fortune cookie last night, seriously, and it read.
“ The clash of ideas is the sound of freedom ”
Most of us are coming into these discussions at varying parts of the process. I have been with this since Boye and I began meeting the second Thursday night of the Nationals and even stayed over on the following Monday so we could have one last discussion about going forward. I have had plenty of time to be angry at every cheater, , myself , the organizations , every troll. the lack of accountability and procedures etc. I can so relate with both Joel's and Ish's position. It seems that we never want either of them to play in anything important while encouraging cheating pairs to come forward.
Sept. 20, 2015
Allan Graves edited this comment Sept. 20, 2015
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Well said Peg
Sept. 19, 2015
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The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

IMO we need to balance a very strong deterrent with encouraging “ coming in from the cold ”. Not coming in , the penalty is life , if and when we catch you. Coming in, something less. It's a big tent , our bridge community .“ Coming in from the cold ” is the first step in a multi stage apology. Apologies are a very important in a good human society. We need to protect the game with very long suspensions , establish very strong detergents. demand restitution but also leave space to accept an apology.
Sept. 19, 2015
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I agree Karen. FS and FN for life. SP less. ( Life as a pair. ) Ten and restitution ( however that can be decided ) for them as individuals. This is best for them as they need to get on with their lives in another livelihood. Obviously they are smart enough to make a living outside of bridge.
Sept. 19, 2015
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The last time I looked at NBO regulations there is almost nothing the players can do
short of 100 % proof to instigate a serious investigation. . The NBO"s have complete control over the process.
Congratulations on a job well done.

The German doctors were caught by the USA senior team after years of European play.
Fisher Schwartz played in your Cavendish Teams 2013 and 2014
Fantoni Nunes were welcomed to Monaco .
Smirnov and Peikarek confessed

Depends on what the meaning of concrete data is
or even what the meaning of is, is.
Sept. 19, 2015
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Hi Mustafa. I understand your caring for your friends and team mates and your loyalty.
And i think my post may have bee misunderstood. I was only concerned with not starting a new discussion about other pairs as there are now quiet ways to pursue it and we need to stop the public questioning of other pairs.
It is very important for Alex and Josef going forward that they did confess. They do not have an easy road ahead. They are going to need the support of their bridge friends.
If you are in Denver can I buy you a beer ?
Sept. 19, 2015
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I agree in principle with Eric R.
Sept. 19, 2015
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Yes deterrence is very important
Sept. 19, 2015
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Yes Tony, restitution is a critical phase after the confession. Again , how to determine what
is suitable and how to go about it is again something that should not be rushed particularly
Sept. 19, 2015
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