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All comments by Michael Xu
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-Kit,

Nice explanation.
10 hours ago
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-Jeff

David said it beautifully.

Again, MATH DOES NOT EQUALS LOGIC IN KID'S EYES. Ignore your current bias that math= logic. Trust me that it doesn't for kids.

Now, as for why logic= good, it kind of targets the person's desire to prove themselves intellectually. You might not understand what I just said, but regardless, the main point of this article is to stop people from using “math.”
14 hours ago
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-Jeff

I would consider bidding the suit where you have longer trumps as logic.


I will not worry about not meeting their expectation for logic.
14 hours ago
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I don't believe so.
June 17
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Afternoon clubs are WAY more realistic than having bridge classes offered in school, that's for sure.
June 17
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Right, that's why I said I'm not sure about memorizing part.

I believe it is kind of our ethical duty to mention memorizing, but I think it is important to not make it seem like the biggest thing. Which I guess is quite hard to do.

I think you might use this argument: “Yes, in bridge, there is a lot of memorizing involved. However, bridge is different in that there are rewards for memorizing the cards played in that it helps me make winning plays, while it is not what makes me win. As opposed to games where you flip two cards over and if they match, you keep them, and if they don't, you flip them over and have to memorize where and what they are to win, bridge requires you to memorize the cards played AND use logic to make use of the information.”

but you should find a way to shorten it.
June 16
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>Perhaps, combining your comments about math having a negative connotation and Sudoku having a negative connotation, what you are trying to say is that numbers have a negative connotation? When I aggregate math, bridge, and Sudoku, what I see as the common thread is using logic and learned techniques and strategies to solve a problem. I am guessing that when you aggregate math and Sudoku, what you see as the common thread is the presence of numbers, and you wish to distinguish bridge from those two because – as we agree – much of bridge is about applying logic.

Me: I'm not really saying that numbers are the problems. I'm saying that

A) people do not realize it is mainly logic
B) people view it as just plain old rules
C) there is a feeling of school and homework to it

Obviously, if you don't view it that way, you can never truly understand the negative connotations to it.

>Perception can become reality, so, whether I agree with what I am assuming is your perspective about math or Sudoku or not, I (as one who is trying to interest youth in playing bridge) benefit from hearing your perspective.

Me: In the end, it all depends on the person you are trying to get. If he views math the way you do, you want to connect math with bridge. If he thinks the way I think he will think (negatively), you do not want to connect bridge to math.

I feel like most people in the comment section agree with my analysis of “math”. However, they are not everybody, so I think a poll on this would be best.

*hint *hint

>Puzzle-solving has a negative connotation.

Michael, I did misquote you. What you stated had a negative connotation was Sudoku, which I had used as an example of puzzle-solving.

Me: However, I do think puzzle-solving has a negative connotation to it. When I think of puzzle-solving, I think of Jig Saw puzzles. I don't like that.

I think fewer people would agree with me on this, but I think a poll would be best.

*wink *wink
June 16
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-Rebecca,

There is a lot, but it is much easier to memorize it if understand the logic, and maybe apply some general principles to it.

But I guess what Monty said about “Memorization is what most beginners try to use when learning to bid, rather than trying to understand why bids mean what they do.” is half false. There are some things where you just have to memorize.
June 16
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-Jeff Bayone

I'm interested in when you said that each trick is 3 points. Wouldn't that mean you would need 21 to open? When you bid 1C, you think you will make 1C, so you need 7 tricks, duh.

My point is, not sure why you included that.
June 16
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Fun fact: my math grade suffered when I took a hiatus from bridge.
June 16
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What do you think about remembering cards which have been played is then? If it is not memorizing, what else could it be?
June 16
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>Bridge is about solving problems, right? And all the steps that lead to a solution, such as gathering evidence, evaluating evidence, applying techniques to use the evidence to your best advantage.

To me, that conjures applying logic and executing strategy. But then, I think of math the same way.“


Me: You are absolutely right. That's what I said.

However, the main point is not everybody truly knows what math is like. They don't have the same perspective of you on math.

>
Michael, from your previous post I am even more concerned about your comment that puzzle-solving has a bad connotation than I am about your comment, there and again now, that math has a bad connotation. I am having a hard time exiting the belief that the group of youth who like to solve problems are the best target of youth for being taught bridge.

Me: Did I really say that puzzle-solving has a bad connotation? In a way, puzzle-solving is quite vague. Is it jig saw? Is it Sudoku? Or is it the dreaded math according to my friends on facebook?

The group of youth who like to solve problems are indeed the best target. I believe I have not yet disagreed with you. No, what I'm saying is that by using math as= solve problems, it brings in the negative connotations of math, which are ”useless, boring, and school.“

Sometimes, teachers are not able to fully show the beauty of logic in math, rather they make it seem all rules and stuff.

I don't want people to think of bridge as ”useless, boring, and school.“ I want to focus on ”logic" part.

While you may think math is synonymous with logic, that is not the case, at least IMO, with other kids.
June 16
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I find certain things painful, but for the things I enjoy they are using logic to solve an equation or geometry problem.
June 16
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Max, you are quite the early waker. I am only up at this hour because I haven't fallen asleep yet.
June 16
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And if you mean access to schools as in clubs, SiVY does sponsor afterschool or during lunch bridge clubs at schools.
June 16
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By access to schools, do you mean as clubs or as classes?

I believe in China, they do. However, I have never heard of a bridge class in school at America, nor have I heard any for Chess, arguably a much bigger game (sadly).

As for the worthwhile effort, it can't hurt to try, but it would be quite hard I would think for public schools.

If however, maybe a bridge playing CEO or whatever the name for the big man (I think it is headmaster) at a private school can implement a bridge class there. I believe I heard a story of a headmaster who made PE necessary in his private school, but had bridge classes as an alternative option.


While making a successful push for having it implemented into public schools is not likely to happen, the publicity and more awareness of the game can't hurt.
June 16
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-Yehudit

I would think Jim is correct. With teenagers having raging hormones going through them, it seems like the opposite sex, especially if attractive, would be more encouraging than cookies and pizza.
June 16
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SOrry in advance for any grammar issues and if some parts don't make sense. I wrote this at 1:00 at night after playing 6 hours of bridge.
June 16
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I went to my first SiVY party in 7th grade.

I think the best age to start is as early as possible. Introduce them to bridge, but don't be too overbearing. Understand that they may not be at the age where they are as smart and logical, so don't push them too hard.
June 14
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Why must you make me hungry for pizza now? :(
June 13
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