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If a penalty is assessed to both pairs, then it should be half the penalty assessed to a single pair that accepts fault.
Oct. 23, 2017
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Maybe Blue Light Club?
Sept. 30, 2017
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Good point that single-suited takeout is part of Cappelletti vs. NT. My point was that while these treatments are permitted for overcalls, they're banned for opening bids even on the highest chart.
Sept. 29, 2017
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The Open+ chart with 6+board matches allows opening 1NT artificial non-forcing as long as it's 10+ HCP and it has no voids and no more than 10+ cards in two suits. I.e., the same patterns as a natural NT, but permitting small singletons. Quasi-natural 1 and 1 are either natural or natural NT which when it's a 6+board match on the open+ chart can be made on a small singleton, but to open a near average 4=4=1=4 hand 1 in 1st seat, the singleton has to be the A, K or Q. I'd like to play a system (like Bid-a-Lot Precision) where I can open a 1st seat near-average 1 with 3=3=1=6 which is a natural NT pattern, but with a small singleton just like the artificial NT permitted on that chart.
Sept. 29, 2017
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My mistake that we could open 9 counts if it was Rule of 19 not Rule of 18, but still, it doesn't change to near average.
Sept. 29, 2017
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Sounds like folks are going to have to switch to natural suit bids with the less-than-near-average-two-suiters, X to show a two-suiter and 1NT to show a 3-suited takeout.
Sept. 29, 2017
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15+ and 8-9 together are a bit more challenging for offense to deal with than 13+ 1. Of course it's also more challenging for the defense to deal with. Most players would have trouble playing against such a system. It would meet some, but not all of the goals I'm going for. I think few players play such systems because of several factors:
1. Discomfort
2. Conformity
3. Kindness
4. Disinterest in the heavy legal burden of defending the system in bridge court and having documentation ready to do battle.
5. Disinterest in playing more than one card which is a must if you want to play a super-chart card, but also want to play a light version in the charity game.
6. Disbelief that there's a \$20 bill on the ground and no one has picked it up in decades.
7. A very different and new style of play. This last one is the main thing I'm trying to chip away at with Bid-a-Lot Precision. The Precision responses should work pretty well simply adding 3 HCP to them or one major suit card. This gives a large potential base of early adopters. Especially of a version closer to what Kit is proposing despite all its half-century-old flaws.
Sept. 29, 2017
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There's something to be said for 8-12 2 showing clubs and that is in line with original Precision. Personally, I'd rather have just one bid in the 1-2 suite showing minors. A half-measure would be weak-two range for 2 and 2 6+m 6-10 or something. I don't have the patience to test those bids thoroughly because they're less interesting to me than 1/1M/1N/1/2NT.

I currently play a strong 1 so what your saying is something I'm super familiar with. I like 1 13+ because it pools good hands with not quite so good hands so it's not necessarily a good idea for opponents to bid in a loopy fashion to preempt. This gives it an element of Polish .

I also like the micro preempt of 1 limited 8-12. It neutralizes the strong unless they want to craft a competition system with one fewer call. It sorts out several rounds of bidding versus standard's 1m-1M-1N-2om and it does it 4 or 5 steps lower. It spills that majors are not breaking 4-1 that direction. We'll see if it's worth it.
Sept. 29, 2017
Sam Dinkin edited this comment Sept. 29, 2017
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Eric, the ranges are just as narrow as Precision for the limited openings. The strong club (WBF defines 13 as strong), and the 3+ (same as 1969 Precision) are all quite similar in initial information. Playing 5-card majors, the 1 can be quite nebulous. Playing 4-card majors, it's very crisp–it denies a 4-card major. Within the 8-12s, about 28% go to 1, 40% go to 1 and 30% go to 1 (and 2% go to 3). Note that in Precision the 8-9 or 8-10 counts all go to pass. In Precision, of the 11-15s 18% go to 1, 17% go to 1, 5% go to 2, 2% go to 2, 22% go to 1NT and 36% go to 1. There are 45% of hands 8-12 vs 34% 11-15. Even sized buckets get the maximum information. Knowing about a 5-card major is useful, but is it twice as useful as knowing about a 4-card major? My estimate is no, and there are twice as many 4-card major hands as 5-card major hands. 11-15's have more equity than 8-12s, but is it 30% more than 8-12s? Because there are 30% more 8-12s to find out about.

There are more buckets in Precision (which as Kit pointed out could also be used Bid-a-Lot style if we subtracted 3 points from the 1969 Precision openings), but the buckets don't identify 4-4 major fits as quickly.

As Adam referred to above, high equity hands may be more useful than 3-7 weak twos. If 2 was 15+ 5+, 2 15+ 5+4m(31) or 6+, 2 10-14 54m(31) or 6+ and 2 10-14 54m(31) or 6+, and 2NT 15-17 with 6+, then there would be more precision in the 13+ range, but less in the 0-7 range.

Do not discount the value of knowing partner has <8 HCP and either no 5-card suit or <5 tricks at equal vulnerability when you are in 3rd seat and partner has passed. You might know that the opponents are good for game or even slam given the inference available from pass. This could be very precise indeed permitting a 2-opening or overcall in a 5-card suit that could normally be opened or overcalled at the 1 level.

Precision is a dialog, but Bid-a-Lot Precision is designed to be more of a monolog by the weak hand which often becomes dummy. Monologs assemble all the information with the bidder with the strong hand whose hand is hidden from the defenders ideally. In particular, it's designed with relay in mind as an option. This is very useful after 1/1/1/1NT/2NT and 3 openers (and if the two bids become a bit more restricted than any 5-card suit, then relay can work over them too).

Regarding 1, Precision's 16+ opener and 8+ responder happens about 7% of the time in 1st seat. And the opponents will often open ahead of 16+ in 3rd or 4th seat. In contrast, 13+ opener 11+ responder is closer to 11%. With the more evenly divided HCP, this is a higher equity combination than 16+ 8+ because game is slightly more likely to make.

In sum, feel free to describe it just as Bid-a-Lot if you think the Precision heritage and analogy is inapt, but in many ways it conveys more useful information more quickly.
Sept. 29, 2017
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I'm playing a prototype of this system with Nancy Joe whose bbo name is ibidalot
Sept. 29, 2017
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Good point. 2-bids that handle high equity high HCP hands might be superior. That style is what I'm playing currently. But Precision minus 3 HCP may be better at the one level. I intend to fire test this question.
Sept. 29, 2017
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1 8+ artificial is super chart. If you have another way of opening unbalanced hands, it would be ok as a quasinatural club on the Open Chart, but if not, it's only ok third seat.
Sept. 29, 2017
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Yeah. You can play stayman-like inquiries. They need to also ask for things required to be asked for like voids. The Open chart liberalizes responses fairly radically, but we'll have to read the fine print. The gf stayman is permissible, but consider 2 natural w/Stayman rebids. 1 in response to 1 can be artificial even on the limited chart.
Sept. 29, 2017
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Yeah, they were written before the laws permitted a total ban.
Sept. 28, 2017
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Kit, 5 card majors are great, but 4 card majors come up twice as often. That frees up the 2 bid to be something else, e.g weak with diamonds is the theme bid. 10-14 or 19+ with 5+ is another. If we can fold the 10-12 NT into 1/1/1, 1N can be used as a different range. I like 13-15 for frequency and comfort, especially vul. But a 10-12 NT is playable especially if it denies a 4+card major. If it promises 5 it can take over for much of the 2 bid and the rest can go to 3 freeing up 2 to be strong art, str with spades, or alternatively weak with clubs to go with the theme, or popular in Europe is 4+4+ majors. Certainly those tweaks make it not so easy to play it casually.

The 8-12 2+ 1 is currently superchart, but will be permissible as quasinatural on the upcoming Open chart assuming that the 2 hands are all balanced. You can play it 3+ and put the 3-3-2-5 hands into 1N or 2 or pass the 8-9 to abide the general and midcharts. If you're not needing conventions over 1NT, for a limited time you can play it 8-12.

You still need something different for 3rd seat. You would have to add 3 HCP to all the standard Precision openings if you wanted those to work. But if opener is limited to 7, we can probably do better by adding 4 HCP because asymmetric strength tends to require almost an extra HCP. I think 15-17 NT or 15-18- is right. Defense should bid to go plus since game is likely out of the question for both sides. Same for 1H and 1S. If you play them 4+, 1N can deny a 4 card major. You're essentially opening your planned stayman response.
Sept. 28, 2017
Sam Dinkin edited this comment Sept. 28, 2017
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Still can play most of it on new basic chart. 1N could be 10-12 and the 2 bids 4-7. Quasi natural is 10+ on the new basic chart. On the open chart quasi natural is near average+ (8+ if bal). Lose about half the 3 counts and the 3=3=2=5 8 and 9 counts so down to 86% of hands. So P-1N-2N can be alerted as 3=3=2=5 9 HCP.
Sept. 28, 2017
Sam Dinkin edited this comment Sept. 28, 2017
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5-6 clubs bal goes into the quasi natural 1D. Quasi natural can be natural or qualify for natural NT (if it had enough HCP).

2NT Strong with diamonds, 15-17 1st/2nd in current draft. Needs to ask for voids or similar below mid chart. 3rd 4th maybe same thing but stronger–interested in game if partner has 6 or 7.
Sept. 28, 2017
Sam Dinkin edited this comment Sept. 28, 2017
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It's legal. No conventions allowed. Limited time only. The new regulations will ban it altogether.
Sept. 28, 2017
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The committee has used 10 HCP as a limit for natural NT instead of Average which would permit 9 HCP 54, 63 or 7222 hands. Average would also change to Near Average for 3rd/4th seat openers whereas 10 HCP doesn't. I assume this is intentional.
Sept. 28, 2017
Sam Dinkin edited this comment Sept. 28, 2017
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I should add this is a bit of a tease as opening two of b is disallowed open+ 6+boards, as is two of a, as is c, as is a&b as is a&c and as is b&c. Perhaps this should just be for overcalls?
Sept. 28, 2017
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