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I'm interested in AG's current opinion here. FWIW, and based upon my reading of his stuff, I think he will say they are slam inv: 3m = 5+M-5+m, 3om = 5+M-5+om, 3M = strong jump shift one-suiter, 3H after 1S = 5+-5+. That's an advantageous corollary to using R's rebid 2N—>3C to allow R to show various 5-4 strong hands (2C then 2N = inv). Folks seem to differ on whether the immediate jump shows more “purity” (and what the minimum requirements for that will be), allowing R to use the GF 2D then the 2nd suit to show well-distributed GF+ HCP.

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I've been waiting for someone to observe that this is a 5-loser hand, 13.6 on K&R, with nice cards in partner's suit; was expecting some debate on what “sound 2 level game forcing bids” might denote.

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I'm with Frances. Regardless of count (and I believe in K&R), can I envision a 2♥ raise that offers slam? You betcha. My only real question is whether We have the methods to find slam and to stop in 4♥ if its not there.

Disclaimer: this from a guy who has bid 8 out of his last 6 slams.

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I find fewer 8-10s pauses after a 2N opener or a natural jump to 2N or 3N, and I too feel that the failure to wait is much less objectionable in these auctions (normally the failure to wait drives me nuts). Anyone else?

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Do you believe that a “standard” agreement in this position is that S should expect no values, only shape? As opposed to pass, then 3m or 4m depending upon how the auction goes? that W could not hold, say, Jxxx x xxxxx xxx?

Could N hold, say, xx x Axxxx Kxxxx? or xx x AKxxx xxxxx? or xx x Qxxxx Jxxxx? or xx x xxxxx xxxxx? any of them?

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I'm used to playing a lot of direct 4N = natural in big auctions, and the limited GF hands go through 2D. After …2N-3♣/3♥-3♠ relay ask, cue of stiff = RKCB for X. And now I see that all of those “GF” should be “GF+” (= slammish). Sorry.

And I'm with some of the posters who'd like to see more of these auctions come up. ‘Course then we’d have to get it right….

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Some alternatives (these include a 2-way alternative structure, where R's 2♣ does not force 2♦ – what do you do with weak 4M-6♦?):

R’s 2N relay -> 3♣:

R may pass with ♣, bid 3♦ to play (weak 4M-6♦, if playing 2-way), or 3♥ = GF, 4Y-5X with stiff, relay asks: 1st step = low, 2nd = high, 3♠ = GF, 4Y-5X-2-2, values in X and Y, 3N = GF, 4Y-5X-2-2, more in 2-2

When using 1C-1D/1M-1N with 4OM-6D and weak OR 2♣ -> 2♦ so 2♦ can be to play with weak):

R’s 2N relay -> 3♣:

R may pass with ♣, or 3♦ = GF, 5Y-4X with stiff, relay asks: 1st step = low, 2nd = high, 3♥ = GF, 4Y-5X with stiff, relay asks: 1st step = low, 2nd = high, 3♠ = GF, 4Y-5X-2-2, 3N = GF, 5Y-4X-2-2

Gumperz: 1m-1M/1N-2N/3♣-3X = 4M, 5+ m, stiff X 1m-1M/1N-2N/3♣-3N = 4M, 5+ m, 2-2 1m-1M/1N-2♦/2M or 2OM-3m = 5M, 4 m, GF 1m-1M/1N-2♦/2M or 2OM-3om = 5M, 4 om, GF

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1♦-1♥/2♣-2♠/3♥-3N/4♦-4♥: Assuming 2♠ = 4thSuit, now 3N cannot be a COG offer with say KJx=KQTxx=xx=KJx? (Ignoring effects of 3N = Serious/Frivolous, and LTTC, but I assume ♥ would be agreed….)

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ATT, the auction was P-(P)-1♣-(1♥)//X -(2♥)-3♣-(3♥)//4♥-(P)-4♠-(P)//6♣, down one when the K♣ was offside as could have been predicted.

When I post-mortemed the deal, I thought West was compelled to follow through with a slam invite, in case Diamond is right and East's hand was any one of several suitable mins with minimal wastage in H or a good 3♣ rebid kind of hand. I also thought that East's 4♠ had to show one of those good hands for ♣ (4♥ shows gooooood for ♣, the long hand takes the ♥ forces), and, with Cunningham, that, since West passed originally and could not have held all of the cards East wanted him to hold to make slam a good proposition with the overcall by South (missing the ♥A, though….), maybe East should bid 5♣ instead of 4♠. Of course, then West would've held Axxx V KT9xx Kxxx instead.

Scott Needham

Scott Needham

Scott Needham

Scott Needham

A more iffy one: Various situations in which we are trying to decide whether to bid NT with the stiffA in opps' bid-and-raised suit.

Scott Needham

Scott Needham

Disclaimer: this from a guy who has bid 8 out of his last 6 slams.

EDIT: Why stop in 5♥ when we can stop in 4?

Scott Needham

Scott Needham

Scott Needham

Scott Needham

Could N hold, say, xx x Axxxx Kxxxx? or xx x AKxxx xxxxx? or xx x Qxxxx Jxxxx? or xx x xxxxx xxxxx? any of them?

Scott Needham

And I'm with some of the posters who'd like to see more of these auctions come up. ‘Course then we’d have to get it right….

Scott Needham

Scott Needham

R’s 2N relay -> 3♣:

R may pass with ♣, bid 3♦ to play (weak 4M-6♦, if playing 2-way), or

3♥ = GF, 4Y-5X with stiff, relay asks: 1st step = low, 2nd = high,

3♠ = GF, 4Y-5X-2-2, values in X and Y,

3N = GF, 4Y-5X-2-2, more in 2-2

When using 1C-1D/1M-1N with 4OM-6D and weak OR 2♣ -> 2♦ so 2♦ can be to play with weak):

R’s 2N relay -> 3♣:

R may pass with ♣, or

3♦ = GF, 5Y-4X with stiff, relay asks: 1st step = low, 2nd = high,

3♥ = GF, 4Y-5X with stiff, relay asks: 1st step = low, 2nd = high,

3♠ = GF, 4Y-5X-2-2,

3N = GF, 5Y-4X-2-2

Gumperz: 1m-1M/1N-2N/3♣-3X = 4M, 5+ m, stiff X

1m-1M/1N-2N/3♣-3N = 4M, 5+ m, 2-2

1m-1M/1N-2♦/2M or 2OM-3m = 5M, 4 m, GF

1m-1M/1N-2♦/2M or 2OM-3om = 5M, 4 om, GF

In all cases, 1X-1Y/1X-3X = GF+, 5-5 in X and Y

Scott Needham

Scott Needham

Scott Needham

When I post-mortemed the deal, I thought West was compelled to follow through with a slam invite, in case Diamond is right and East's hand was any one of several suitable mins with minimal wastage in H or a good 3♣ rebid kind of hand. I also thought that East's 4♠ had to show one of those good hands for ♣ (4♥ shows gooooood for ♣, the long hand takes the ♥ forces), and, with Cunningham, that, since West passed originally and could not have held all of the cards East wanted him to hold to make slam a good proposition with the overcall by South (missing the ♥A, though….), maybe East should bid 5♣ instead of 4♠. Of course, then West would've held Axxx V KT9xx Kxxx instead.

Scott Needham

Scott Needham

Scott Needham

Scott Needham

Drat, left off an option, added now….